Small Anchor Press
Correspondence between Mike Heppner and Jen Hyde (July 23 – December 1, 2008)
July 23, 2008
Hi Jen,
I don't know if you're still on vacation, but let's talk when you get back in town. I wanted to know if you'd be interested in collaborating on a little multi-media venture between my website and Small Anchor. I think it could generate some money and publicity for you, but there's a time-factor involved (I'm hoping to make it happen at the start of Fall). I wanted to discuss the feasibility and to see if you'd be interested. My number is --- --- ----.
Take care,
Mike
July 29
Hi Mike,
I'm very interested in collaborating with you—always. Congratulations on Man Talking, by the way. From the word I've heard, it was a good choice to put it online. I'm back in town on Friday. Can we talk over the weekend or on Monday? I hope you are well!
xo, jen
August 11
Hi Mike,
Here's the cover design I had in mind. We can change the photos if you want, I used myself as a model, but I'd like to use a man's lips and boy’s legs if we can find them. I want to make a book jacket that wraps around the entire book and opens up at the center. It will be held closed with these images. The ones on the left and right would be hidden, and on first look one would see the middle image and the title on either end. The reader would pull at the strip to open the book and reveal the other two images I hope everything's well on your end!
Jen
August 30
Hi Jen,
Here are the contacts that I think should go out direct from Small Anchor on Tuesday (if we're all set by then). I've got a bunch more that I'll send out from here. I'll put together an email with the press release both as an attachment and in the body of the message so you can send it out (I'll probably do that tomorrow or Monday).
More soon,
Mike
September 13 7:10PM
Hi Mike,
Josh survived my binding sweatshop having collated most of the copies. Perfect little stacks of Talking Man.
Jen
September 13 8:17PM
Thanks so much to the both of you for all your hard work. It is greatly appreciated! We'll touch base again mid-week, when the PR goes out. Have a good night. No more silverfish, hopefully.
m
September 16 10:19AM
Subject: Boston Reading Confirmed!
Hope you can be there--we should be able to put you up. We'll talk and I'll give you the details. This definitely means we'll want to re-hit Boston press around late Oct. Any news?
m
September 16 10:35AM
Oh excellent--congrats! We'll definitely do Boston press in late October. Would be great if we could do some physical publicity around that time in Boston, too. And I will be there for sure!
Jen
September 16 4:29PM
Also, I don't know if you're keeping track of who's purchasing TM, but I wonder if the list of people I give you will inform your question about the appeal of 'literary' writers to a specific community. I wonder if the release and publicity process of Talking Man can serve as a set of notes for your project.
Jen
September 21 10:31PM
Hey Mike,
My co-editor Nalini and I spent 12 hours binding today, and we're finally done!
j
September 22 4:51AM
Jen,
Good morning! The PR and the site update look great. Go ahead and send it out, and I'll forward it along on my end. Again, thank you so much for all the time and creativity you've put into this. It's given me a real shot in the arm, which was much needed. I'm looking forward to celebrating it in NY. Let's talk in a few days.
More soon,
Mike
September 24 10:44AM
What do you think of leaving a small stack of Man in the MoMA or at PS1? Like in the Atelier with the continually changing exhibits?
Jen
September 24 11:37AM
I like your ideas of where to leave Man--museums seem to make sense. Would you be interested in taking a look at the draft of Man? I should have it done by early next week.
More soon, and huge thanks as always,
m
September 26 2:57AM
I wanted to save Man for this weekend when I could sit down properly with my pen and look at it, but I couldn't help myself tonight and just started to read. Rather quickly. Like peaking at ice cubes in their tray before they’ve frozen. And now, I'm hung up on this question that bothers you, too:
Was a book merely a physical object to possess and keep on a shelf or was it something more potent and abstract?
When we were putting the books together a few weeks ago I was telling Josh that I'm worried about how the closure will weather when people open the book. Josh pointed out that after the one's first read of TM it would become an art piece. Your book is not a fucking 'art piece.' Nor is it an artist book. It's an excellent story housed in a beautiful body that should be undressed often and read and shared.
Jen
September 26 4:52AM
Jen,
I don’t think Josh’s remark came out as he intended. I do like the idea of having the destruction process be a marker of frequency of reads, as you say, though I suppose it depends on what kind of destruction.
Now go to sleep! (Or actually good morning, since I'm guessing sleep time's already happened.)
m
September 26 9:31AM
I did take Josh's comment to the extreme, but it's something about chapbook publishing that I am frustrated with. I think the aesthetic of a book should interact with the content, but it shouldn't be an overpowering element. I don't think I did that with Talking Man. The closure is interesting because it has a logical function but it also requires the holder of the book to read it, too. But it’s not a distraction from your story. I'm excited about that. I just think there is a kind of nostalgia found in commercially bound books that chapbooks don’t get to have because the crafting process is an artistic one. There is more care to not destroy/handle the book. But maybe I am wrong. Maybe that's a good thing?
-jen
September 26 9:54AM
I hear what you're saying. I like the idea of the fragility of the book heightening one's awareness of the content, which also makes sense in light of some of this project's larger objectives. Give me a call when you can, and stay out of the rain.
m
October 1 4:29AM
Looking forward to seeing the book today. I'll let you know when I get it.
m
October 1 9:24AM
Major typos--take a look at starting on top of page 10, and then every page following up to the end--multiple lines cut off between pages. I checked all copies... same problem. The book can't go out like this. We're going to need to figure out something to do.
Call me when you can.
m
October 1 11:34AM
Okay, the files are being fixed. Nalini's going to send them to you by 1 and call you then…
j
October 2 9:39PM
Hey,
How'd it go last night? I heard from McElroy, and he thinks there's a reasonably good chance to do a reading at Temple next semester--I have to send them some materials. Also, I'll be sending you an updated Manfrom my Emerson account in an hour or so, for your files. Smoother overall, with a much more concise ending (possibly too concise). Anyway, I plan on letting it sit for a while.
M
October 2 1:41PM
We disassembled your old guts and drilled through the new ones. I had some math issues with the paper sizing and we ended up cutting the book down by 1/8th of an inch from the top with the help of a woman who did not speak English and refused to acknowledge my Spanish. At Kinkos. I'm sewing them up tonight and I think we're good to go!
This project has been so visually demanding for which I'm thankful and happy.
I was thinking more about the variety in your formats, specifically the differences between Man Talking and Talking Man. As a computer file Man Talking exists (unless printed out) in a non-physical state, just like the mind which can't create anything physical. And the computer actually collaborates really well with the mind, no? The rhythm of the stream of sentences as they're typed onto the screen is the rhythm of the mind making the sentences. Even though I know there was an editing and publishing process to Part IV, its form is still in this mind/computer headspace, which for me has no boundaries. It’s just the mind in total control. By giving Talking Man a body we gave up some freedom that comes with boundaries. Even though I ultimately chose every component for Talking Man, I actually made and equal number of decisions for the book as it made for itself. Either my mind collaborated with itself again, or the object collaborated with me.
Also, thank you for this new version of Man! I'll see if any of my notes from the original apply to this copy and try to hand it back to you tomorrow or Saturday.
Jen
October 2 2:15
Save all these thoughts--they're good ones and might be useful depending on how the project evolves. But what you say about Talking Man and its physical form— it’s something I sensed even as I was writing it, which is why I knew you'd be right for the job. And the theories you set out also apply in different ways for Man, vis a vis the relationship between the content and the specific presentation.
I'm in Man overload right now--no perspective on it at all. One worry is that it's too long for what it is (though I don't want it a lot shorter). But the other worry is the converse of that, which is that the last page or two might be rushed. I found the closer the narrative came to the present day, the more the writing suffered, which is why I decided to let the end not-breathe as much as the other sections. But perhaps with a few weeks' perspective (and your insights) I might find a solution, if indeed there is a problem.
Gotta teach...
m
October 4
Hi Mike,
Here’s the original Man. I saved your first draft as Original Draft of Man 9.25.08 (the date you sent it). I can't say it too many times, It was great to see you last night and again today. I hope you were able to enjoy some of the afternoon and evening in New York. I look forward to Boston, and hopefully Philly and then--the world!
much love,
Jen
October 5
Hey,
Thanks again so much for everything--you did an awesome job, and it was a pleasure to work with you. Thanks also for the kind gift, I'll treasure it! Could you send me your address so I can mail back those defective books? I'll get them back to you by mid-week. Let's talk in a week or so and touch base on where to go next.
I'm also going to start thinking about my Man revision--I'll look over your note again (thank you again for that... so many things to thank you for!). In the meantime, good luck with your next project.
M
October 14 10:49AM
I just got your notes. I'll need to take some time to go through them, but at a glance I want to thank you for putting so much time and hard work into it. I know it'll be a better piece because of it. I'll let you know how the rewrite goes (should be done in a week or so). Not much other news. A few new names added to our Man list, bringing the total to 26 (one more in Detroit, and another in upstate NY). I don't think we need a whole lot more (it'll soon get expensive to send out the mailings), but it would be great to find 3-4 more people in some unrepresented areas like Minneapolis, DC, Denver, Portand (OR), New Mexico, that sort of thing. But there's still time and I still haven't heard from a few people. Oh, some downer news--I heard from Temple, and they wanted me out there to read, but the date they had available was Jan. 29th, two days after Christa's due date. They also suggested 1/21, but that's still too close. They said they'd see what they could do in terms of adjusting the schedule, so maybe it'll still work out. I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Mike
October 16 10:59AM
The macrostructure of the project has changed a bit. Talking is now coming at the end, rather than the beginning. Man is done as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to let it sit and take another look at it in November before starting to get the copies together. Your notes were very much appreciated--such a good choice to go back to the original ending (or at least a modified version of it). The line edits were also extremely helpful, so thank you. Obviously the "what he remembers" stuff was the main point of focus, and I'm grateful for the thoughts and suggestions. You're probably going to think to yourself "why did I put so much work into this?" but I think I'm just going to leave that aspect of it as is. The alternatives are interesting but I think that the main advantage of "what he remembers" is that, while it may be a bit expedient and artless, it does get the point across quickly and becomes fairly transparent over time. Adjusting the POV or the sentence structures would probably work in another kind of piece, but I think feels a bit too post-modern in this context. But it was worth the close investigation you gave it, because it forced me to think about what I was doing and why--so definitely time well spent.
A couple more Man people signed up, one in NY and another in Seattle (your friend). So that brings us to 27. We don't need a lot more, just maybe one or two in the overlooked areas.
A question to think about--what sort of PR to do for Man in advance of Dec.1st, since the thing itself is really just a press announcement anyway. Whether there should be some creep-up the week before, or just go out with the message on the 1st. I don't know.
Anyway, thanks for your news--it all sounds fantastic--and I do deeply appreciate all the time and effort you're putting into this.
Talk soon,
Mike
October 16 12:46PM
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your note. I'm glad Man is finished and settling on your desk, and good to know that the ‘what he remembers’ parts remain. I think I struggled to find a way for them to work, but I think my suggestions would have made them more of a focal point of the piece and in the end, the format as it is, is probably the best for those moments. In terms of Talking, I'm also glad to know that it's going to finish the project. I always imagined it coming at the end in the series, it's where the project really explodes into something else. All of my suggestions so far have been to take it off the page.
As for PR for Man, I think that it might be good to leak onto the internet that the third novella is on its way. Another Youtube video is one option, which could be sent out with a brief, elusive e-mail to all of the Talking Man contacts.
Jen
November 21
All packets of Man have been sent out! Also, the post office is going to receive a strange envelope marked JOSH with no return address. Let's hope they open it up and read Man. Sorry about that--I was in a hurry and trying to not get caught using the stamp machine at work last night!
jen
November 21
Hey,
Great news about the packets--I'm sending out seven today, which leaves the job about 90% done on my end. I like the fact that some copies are going to be floating around in a dead letter office somewhere.
m
November 30
Jen,
Some nice words from Neil about the project--he also compliments you toward the end.
m
December 1
Oh Mike,
This letter from Neil is also beautiful. I think probably one of the best book reviews/art reviews of all time! You've done something really great here for a lot of people. Man courageous and daring both as a text and a process of publication. And I think everyone who finds it and everyone involved would agree, would already know it.
Looking forward to hearing more news!
Jen
December 1
Hey (just back from teaching--11pm),
Thank you for that--WE'VE done something great, I think, as the project would have run aground long ago if you hadn't gotten involved. We'll talk later in the week, but for now...
good night....
....zzzz....
m
July 23, 2008
Hi Jen,
I don't know if you're still on vacation, but let's talk when you get back in town. I wanted to know if you'd be interested in collaborating on a little multi-media venture between my website and Small Anchor. I think it could generate some money and publicity for you, but there's a time-factor involved (I'm hoping to make it happen at the start of Fall). I wanted to discuss the feasibility and to see if you'd be interested. My number is --- --- ----.
Take care,
Mike
July 29
Hi Mike,
I'm very interested in collaborating with you—always. Congratulations on Man Talking, by the way. From the word I've heard, it was a good choice to put it online. I'm back in town on Friday. Can we talk over the weekend or on Monday? I hope you are well!
xo, jen
August 11
Hi Mike,
Here's the cover design I had in mind. We can change the photos if you want, I used myself as a model, but I'd like to use a man's lips and boy’s legs if we can find them. I want to make a book jacket that wraps around the entire book and opens up at the center. It will be held closed with these images. The ones on the left and right would be hidden, and on first look one would see the middle image and the title on either end. The reader would pull at the strip to open the book and reveal the other two images I hope everything's well on your end!
Jen
August 30
Hi Jen,
Here are the contacts that I think should go out direct from Small Anchor on Tuesday (if we're all set by then). I've got a bunch more that I'll send out from here. I'll put together an email with the press release both as an attachment and in the body of the message so you can send it out (I'll probably do that tomorrow or Monday).
More soon,
Mike
September 13 7:10PM
Hi Mike,
Josh survived my binding sweatshop having collated most of the copies. Perfect little stacks of Talking Man.
Jen
September 13 8:17PM
Thanks so much to the both of you for all your hard work. It is greatly appreciated! We'll touch base again mid-week, when the PR goes out. Have a good night. No more silverfish, hopefully.
m
September 16 10:19AM
Subject: Boston Reading Confirmed!
Hope you can be there--we should be able to put you up. We'll talk and I'll give you the details. This definitely means we'll want to re-hit Boston press around late Oct. Any news?
m
September 16 10:35AM
Oh excellent--congrats! We'll definitely do Boston press in late October. Would be great if we could do some physical publicity around that time in Boston, too. And I will be there for sure!
Jen
September 16 4:29PM
Also, I don't know if you're keeping track of who's purchasing TM, but I wonder if the list of people I give you will inform your question about the appeal of 'literary' writers to a specific community. I wonder if the release and publicity process of Talking Man can serve as a set of notes for your project.
Jen
September 21 10:31PM
Hey Mike,
My co-editor Nalini and I spent 12 hours binding today, and we're finally done!
j
September 22 4:51AM
Jen,
Good morning! The PR and the site update look great. Go ahead and send it out, and I'll forward it along on my end. Again, thank you so much for all the time and creativity you've put into this. It's given me a real shot in the arm, which was much needed. I'm looking forward to celebrating it in NY. Let's talk in a few days.
More soon,
Mike
September 24 10:44AM
What do you think of leaving a small stack of Man in the MoMA or at PS1? Like in the Atelier with the continually changing exhibits?
Jen
September 24 11:37AM
I like your ideas of where to leave Man--museums seem to make sense. Would you be interested in taking a look at the draft of Man? I should have it done by early next week.
More soon, and huge thanks as always,
m
September 26 2:57AM
I wanted to save Man for this weekend when I could sit down properly with my pen and look at it, but I couldn't help myself tonight and just started to read. Rather quickly. Like peaking at ice cubes in their tray before they’ve frozen. And now, I'm hung up on this question that bothers you, too:
Was a book merely a physical object to possess and keep on a shelf or was it something more potent and abstract?
When we were putting the books together a few weeks ago I was telling Josh that I'm worried about how the closure will weather when people open the book. Josh pointed out that after the one's first read of TM it would become an art piece. Your book is not a fucking 'art piece.' Nor is it an artist book. It's an excellent story housed in a beautiful body that should be undressed often and read and shared.
Jen
September 26 4:52AM
Jen,
I don’t think Josh’s remark came out as he intended. I do like the idea of having the destruction process be a marker of frequency of reads, as you say, though I suppose it depends on what kind of destruction.
Now go to sleep! (Or actually good morning, since I'm guessing sleep time's already happened.)
m
September 26 9:31AM
I did take Josh's comment to the extreme, but it's something about chapbook publishing that I am frustrated with. I think the aesthetic of a book should interact with the content, but it shouldn't be an overpowering element. I don't think I did that with Talking Man. The closure is interesting because it has a logical function but it also requires the holder of the book to read it, too. But it’s not a distraction from your story. I'm excited about that. I just think there is a kind of nostalgia found in commercially bound books that chapbooks don’t get to have because the crafting process is an artistic one. There is more care to not destroy/handle the book. But maybe I am wrong. Maybe that's a good thing?
-jen
September 26 9:54AM
I hear what you're saying. I like the idea of the fragility of the book heightening one's awareness of the content, which also makes sense in light of some of this project's larger objectives. Give me a call when you can, and stay out of the rain.
m
October 1 4:29AM
Looking forward to seeing the book today. I'll let you know when I get it.
m
October 1 9:24AM
Major typos--take a look at starting on top of page 10, and then every page following up to the end--multiple lines cut off between pages. I checked all copies... same problem. The book can't go out like this. We're going to need to figure out something to do.
Call me when you can.
m
October 1 11:34AM
Okay, the files are being fixed. Nalini's going to send them to you by 1 and call you then…
j
October 2 9:39PM
Hey,
How'd it go last night? I heard from McElroy, and he thinks there's a reasonably good chance to do a reading at Temple next semester--I have to send them some materials. Also, I'll be sending you an updated Manfrom my Emerson account in an hour or so, for your files. Smoother overall, with a much more concise ending (possibly too concise). Anyway, I plan on letting it sit for a while.
M
October 2 1:41PM
We disassembled your old guts and drilled through the new ones. I had some math issues with the paper sizing and we ended up cutting the book down by 1/8th of an inch from the top with the help of a woman who did not speak English and refused to acknowledge my Spanish. At Kinkos. I'm sewing them up tonight and I think we're good to go!
This project has been so visually demanding for which I'm thankful and happy.
I was thinking more about the variety in your formats, specifically the differences between Man Talking and Talking Man. As a computer file Man Talking exists (unless printed out) in a non-physical state, just like the mind which can't create anything physical. And the computer actually collaborates really well with the mind, no? The rhythm of the stream of sentences as they're typed onto the screen is the rhythm of the mind making the sentences. Even though I know there was an editing and publishing process to Part IV, its form is still in this mind/computer headspace, which for me has no boundaries. It’s just the mind in total control. By giving Talking Man a body we gave up some freedom that comes with boundaries. Even though I ultimately chose every component for Talking Man, I actually made and equal number of decisions for the book as it made for itself. Either my mind collaborated with itself again, or the object collaborated with me.
Also, thank you for this new version of Man! I'll see if any of my notes from the original apply to this copy and try to hand it back to you tomorrow or Saturday.
Jen
October 2 2:15
Save all these thoughts--they're good ones and might be useful depending on how the project evolves. But what you say about Talking Man and its physical form— it’s something I sensed even as I was writing it, which is why I knew you'd be right for the job. And the theories you set out also apply in different ways for Man, vis a vis the relationship between the content and the specific presentation.
I'm in Man overload right now--no perspective on it at all. One worry is that it's too long for what it is (though I don't want it a lot shorter). But the other worry is the converse of that, which is that the last page or two might be rushed. I found the closer the narrative came to the present day, the more the writing suffered, which is why I decided to let the end not-breathe as much as the other sections. But perhaps with a few weeks' perspective (and your insights) I might find a solution, if indeed there is a problem.
Gotta teach...
m
October 4
Hi Mike,
Here’s the original Man. I saved your first draft as Original Draft of Man 9.25.08 (the date you sent it). I can't say it too many times, It was great to see you last night and again today. I hope you were able to enjoy some of the afternoon and evening in New York. I look forward to Boston, and hopefully Philly and then--the world!
much love,
Jen
October 5
Hey,
Thanks again so much for everything--you did an awesome job, and it was a pleasure to work with you. Thanks also for the kind gift, I'll treasure it! Could you send me your address so I can mail back those defective books? I'll get them back to you by mid-week. Let's talk in a week or so and touch base on where to go next.
I'm also going to start thinking about my Man revision--I'll look over your note again (thank you again for that... so many things to thank you for!). In the meantime, good luck with your next project.
M
October 14 10:49AM
I just got your notes. I'll need to take some time to go through them, but at a glance I want to thank you for putting so much time and hard work into it. I know it'll be a better piece because of it. I'll let you know how the rewrite goes (should be done in a week or so). Not much other news. A few new names added to our Man list, bringing the total to 26 (one more in Detroit, and another in upstate NY). I don't think we need a whole lot more (it'll soon get expensive to send out the mailings), but it would be great to find 3-4 more people in some unrepresented areas like Minneapolis, DC, Denver, Portand (OR), New Mexico, that sort of thing. But there's still time and I still haven't heard from a few people. Oh, some downer news--I heard from Temple, and they wanted me out there to read, but the date they had available was Jan. 29th, two days after Christa's due date. They also suggested 1/21, but that's still too close. They said they'd see what they could do in terms of adjusting the schedule, so maybe it'll still work out. I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Mike
October 16 10:59AM
The macrostructure of the project has changed a bit. Talking is now coming at the end, rather than the beginning. Man is done as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to let it sit and take another look at it in November before starting to get the copies together. Your notes were very much appreciated--such a good choice to go back to the original ending (or at least a modified version of it). The line edits were also extremely helpful, so thank you. Obviously the "what he remembers" stuff was the main point of focus, and I'm grateful for the thoughts and suggestions. You're probably going to think to yourself "why did I put so much work into this?" but I think I'm just going to leave that aspect of it as is. The alternatives are interesting but I think that the main advantage of "what he remembers" is that, while it may be a bit expedient and artless, it does get the point across quickly and becomes fairly transparent over time. Adjusting the POV or the sentence structures would probably work in another kind of piece, but I think feels a bit too post-modern in this context. But it was worth the close investigation you gave it, because it forced me to think about what I was doing and why--so definitely time well spent.
A couple more Man people signed up, one in NY and another in Seattle (your friend). So that brings us to 27. We don't need a lot more, just maybe one or two in the overlooked areas.
A question to think about--what sort of PR to do for Man in advance of Dec.1st, since the thing itself is really just a press announcement anyway. Whether there should be some creep-up the week before, or just go out with the message on the 1st. I don't know.
Anyway, thanks for your news--it all sounds fantastic--and I do deeply appreciate all the time and effort you're putting into this.
Talk soon,
Mike
October 16 12:46PM
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your note. I'm glad Man is finished and settling on your desk, and good to know that the ‘what he remembers’ parts remain. I think I struggled to find a way for them to work, but I think my suggestions would have made them more of a focal point of the piece and in the end, the format as it is, is probably the best for those moments. In terms of Talking, I'm also glad to know that it's going to finish the project. I always imagined it coming at the end in the series, it's where the project really explodes into something else. All of my suggestions so far have been to take it off the page.
As for PR for Man, I think that it might be good to leak onto the internet that the third novella is on its way. Another Youtube video is one option, which could be sent out with a brief, elusive e-mail to all of the Talking Man contacts.
Jen
November 21
All packets of Man have been sent out! Also, the post office is going to receive a strange envelope marked JOSH with no return address. Let's hope they open it up and read Man. Sorry about that--I was in a hurry and trying to not get caught using the stamp machine at work last night!
jen
November 21
Hey,
Great news about the packets--I'm sending out seven today, which leaves the job about 90% done on my end. I like the fact that some copies are going to be floating around in a dead letter office somewhere.
m
November 30
Jen,
Some nice words from Neil about the project--he also compliments you toward the end.
m
December 1
Oh Mike,
This letter from Neil is also beautiful. I think probably one of the best book reviews/art reviews of all time! You've done something really great here for a lot of people. Man courageous and daring both as a text and a process of publication. And I think everyone who finds it and everyone involved would agree, would already know it.
Looking forward to hearing more news!
Jen
December 1
Hey (just back from teaching--11pm),
Thank you for that--WE'VE done something great, I think, as the project would have run aground long ago if you hadn't gotten involved. We'll talk later in the week, but for now...
good night....
....zzzz....
m
